This rerun was originally aired on September 17, 2021.
Polygene score. Have you heard of it? Researcher Kathryn Paige Harden says it is a set of DNA variants summed into a single number.
“It can predict your chances of graduating from a high school-tracked math class, college,” she says. “And it predicts more than you control — it’s like family income.”
Journalist Carrie Goldberg says it’s not a science fiction novel.
“What’s happening now is that some companies are offering polygene risk screening for embryo selection.”
That’s why Harden says that aiming for equality, while claiming that genes are not a problem, is to “build a house on the sand.” She wants society to accept what she calls eugenics.
“What is anti-eugenics, that is, how can we observe the fact that there are genetic differences between people?” Harden says. “So how can we use our knowledge of genetics to identify inequality of opportunity?”
today, On point: A new moral framework for how to talk about genetics.
The guests
Kathryn Page Harden, Professor of Psychology, University of Texas at Austin. She leads the Developmental Behavioral Genetics Laboratory and co-directs the Texas Twins Project. Author of “Genetic Lottery”. ((((@ kph3k).
Carrie Goldberg, Bloomberg’s Boston bureau chief. ((((@goldbergcarey).
Also featured
Eliona Hisori, Head of Biological Sciences at Colossal.
Sekar Katillesan, CEO and Founder of Verve Therapeutics.
Dorothy Roberts, Professor of Sociology of Law and Afrikaner Studies, University of Pennsylvania.
Interview highlights
How important are genetic differences when it comes to understanding social differences?
Kathryn Page Harden: “The question of how important it is always depends on what you are looking at. In my job, how children behave in school and how they go about education. The emphasis is on the basic cognitive abilities and personality traits that shape the child, and what we find fairly consistently in many different ways is that genetic differences between children are children’s. It’s just as important as the differences in the environment between them. So it’s not just the genes and the environment. Both of these are always contributing to our differences. How children are progressing in school. , Or see the possibility of suffering from mental or behavioral health problems such as depression and delinquency. “
What is a polygene score?
Kathryn Page Harden: “The polygene score derives from this new ability to directly measure people’s genomes. As mentioned in the intro, our genetic engineering has improved dramatically. For example, in my laboratory, children. Can measure hundreds of thousands or even millions of DNA differences for less than $ 60 per person. Primarily for differences like a single DNA character called a snip. I’m focusing.
“That is, what we are doing in these large studies, called genome-wide association studies, is to correlate differences in measured DNA between people, and differences in social and behavioral outcomes. This is really important. I think people are familiar with it in the medical world. For example, we are looking for genetics related to obesity, hypertension, diabetes, etc. What we are doing , The difference between these DNAs is to associate them with social and behavioral traits.
“That is, the risk of ADHD, the distance children go to school, etc. After completing a genome-wide association study, what you can do with that information is to get the correlation between all the estimated DNA variants and it. And basically, it is used to sum up information about the entire genome into one number, which is called the hyperactivity index or hyperactivity risk score. ..
“The interesting thing about polygene indexes is that they are very messy on the one hand. They are aggregating large amounts of information throughout the genome, but at the same time they often strongly correlate with such results. Psychologists are studying it as a variable we are accustomed to in the social sciences. Therefore, a typical example is the polygene index because family income is associated with the likelihood of graduating from college. Is strongly correlated with the likelihood of graduating from college. “
What is one or two of the studies that you think point out the importance of thinking about genetics in terms of social outcomes?
Kathryn Page Harden: “Two very compelling examples of why this and the moral framework of genetic research need to be discussed are two studies that come to my mind. The first is already briefly mentioned in 2018. It was a nature study of. Genetics They are studying 1.1 million people, and the multigene index for educational achievement of genome-wide association analysis is strongly associated with the likelihood of graduating from college as well as family income. I found that I was there.
“Therefore, looking at the bottom 25% of students in the Polygene index, they were one-quarter more likely to graduate from college than the students in the top 25% of the Polygene index. Recently, my colleagues and I, Nature Neuroscience I published a paper. This is a problem related to addictive behavior and behavioral problems, not education. ADHD, problematic alcohol use, illegal drug use, etc. For example, similar patterns Seen ., the Polygene Index can predict the likelihood of developing opioid addiction problems, dismissal from work, and contact with the criminal justice system.
“These are the consequences of life we care about. We want to discuss policies and eliminate inequality. And we have this information from a completely unpredictable genome. This is not a fortune teller, but it captures some differences, so how this information is conceptualized when you think that genetics can be linked to things like education and drug addiction. I think we really have to think about what will be done. It was used to move forward. “
How predictable are the values here?
Kathryn Page Harden: “I’ll give you a concrete example. I think it’s easy to talk about when talking about specific consequences. Therefore, there is a genetic effect on the potential for alcohol abuse problems, and genes are addicted to substances. And some of its genetic effects act through how your body metabolizes alcohol, or how your brain responds to the rewarding effects of alcohol. Are you a genetic effect that acts through the personality traits that take you to a particular type of environment?
“Do I like going to parties? I like spending time with friends as teenagers trying to introduce substances? And we can’t operate-and I should I don’t think-for example, a teenager’s gene, but you can put your family on family therapy. Family therapy teaches parents to better monitor their ties and groups of friends. So, this is one of my favorite studies. The score that predicts the potential for alcohol use problems predicts the alcohol use of teenagers whose families are receiving this family therapy. I will stop. “
About a new moral framework for genetic testing
Kathryn Page Harden: “Maybe the best way to think about it is to go back to this question of which world you want to live in. If you don’t know what the outcome of the genetic lottery will be, which society would you like to live in? Rather than looking for a school that treats all my children the same for you and your children, a school that benefits from that school, learns and equalizes its ability to respond to their uniqueness. I’m looking for.
“In the end, I think it’s very close to the core of what improves social structure and policy, so when thinking about genetic differences, I want you to think about whether genes are really important. And they I think so. Given that every time we get pregnant with a child, we have little control over what happens there, what kind of world do we want to live in? Everyone participates equally How do you respond to your chances and the role of good luck? “
How do you prevent genetic absolutists from adopting your moral framework?
Kathryn Page Harden: “There is no way to prevent villains, but to say what we want to do, we need to be clear about what our goals are and what we are heading for. Assuming that goals are … ideal. Even it gives us a framework for evaluation. Is this policy close to an antigenic framework, or something that already establishes a very harmful birth inequality in our society? I think we need to know where we are. Go to know if we are making progress to get there. “
Book excerpt
Excerpt from GENETIC LOTTERY: Why DNA is important for Kathryn Paige Harden’s social equality. Copyright © 2021 by Kathryn Paige Harden. Reprinted with permission from Princeton University Press.
From the reading list
Bloomberg: “Choosing an embryo in the best health causes a new DNA debate.” — “Rafal Smigrodzki doesn’t do that much, but one day his toddler daughter Aurea can understand it. When he took, he would explain that she probably had medical care. The history of the moment of her birth. “
